This is a blog dedicated to free thinking, critical thinking, science, and skepticism. Pseudoscience, paranormal, religion, science, atheism, humanism, etc. are topics you will see here. We like video games, astronomy, movies, TV, technology, and all kids of other stuff. We like to praise and we like to bitch.
Disclaimer (even though I am under no obligation to do this, but I’m a nice person): This blog is not named after the skeptigirl that frequents the JREF forums, with over 16 000 posts to date since 2005. Even though she could link her name to her own profile somewhere when she posts comments, apparently linking my own blog to my entirely different name — Kimbo Jones — is causing hypothetical confusion. So I hope this clears things up.
Kimbo
I am a health care professional from Canada with a background in psychology/neuroscience and astronomy. I’m also found on Twitter and YouTube.
Mojo
I have a background in psychology and sociology (hey, I had to minor in something). Currently I’m away for several months so Kimbo will be posting solo until I return.
Kimbo Jones
Mojo
21 responses so far ↓
Skeptigirl // August 1, 2009 at 4:03 AM |
You have my moniker!
I wonder who had it first.
Kimbo Jones // August 1, 2009 at 10:48 AM |
who knows
Skeptigirl // August 1, 2009 at 8:35 PM |
Well that suggests you were not the first! I expected more of an explanation than just “who knows”.
If you were not associated with JREF, I’d have less to gripe about. But since you obviously are familiar with JREF and since I’ve been a member there using the name Skeptigirl since Feb of 2005, I find your use of the name rather unethical.
Kimbo Jones // August 1, 2009 at 11:53 PM |
So lemme get this straight. You’re actually really offended? That someone on the internet was equally uncreative with a name?
1) I didn’t know you existed. Because it’s the frakking internet, which happens to be a big place.
2) My handle is Kimbo Jones. Skeptigirl is just the name of the blog.
3) I don’t frequent the JREF forums very often and the odd time I do, I do it under the name Kimbo Jones. (And when I say “not often” I mean like almost never. The only time was when I was following the whole Robert Lancaster issue, and even then I was mainly only reading his wife’s posts. I don’t know the name of every single person that posts on every skeptical forum on the entire internet.)
I’m generally a relatively nice person, but when someone I don’t know comes at me swinging “unethical” accusations in my direction without giving me the benefit of the doubt, I get a bit pissy.
Skeptigirl // August 2, 2009 at 3:42 AM |
Well your first answer was pretty pissy. Perhaps had you said more than, “who knows”, I might not have been so abrupt.
I think you could have taken a couple minutes to find out if you were using someone else’s name as your blog name. It’s not like I only have a couple posts under that name. I have over 16,000 posts under the name, skeptigirl. I was also a speaker at one of the TAMs and I’ve been pretty active in the skeptical community for many years. Had you merely Googled, skeptigirl, you’d have found dozens of links to something I’d posted on the Net.
Would you have chosen a blog name like Skepchick? Why not? Maybe because it isn’t nice to use other people’s names like that.
Some Canadian Skeptic // August 2, 2009 at 6:35 AM |
@skeptigirl (not Kimbo)
I think a few things need to be (re-)discussed:
History:
1) Kimbo already pointed out that her username is, well, Kimbo (I’ve seen her on Skepchick as long as I’ve been going there, which is a little over….Jesus, It’s been 3 years already???). Skeptigirl is just the name of the blog.
Free-Domain/Net-Democratization
2) With respect, you don’t own the name: it’s not yours. I think it’s great that you were one of the speakers at a TAM and that you’ve racked up an impressive post count since 2005 at the JREF forums…but I’m sorry, the JREF forums aren’t the president of online skepticism….there’s no rank worth applying, no governing body. The JREF, as super-rad as it is, holds no more sway over Kimbo as Richard Dawkins.net holds over PZ Myers. Much more importantly, it’s not your actual name: It’s a self-assumed identity in a virtual community/culture that occasionally has overlap within the various other blogs/forums/outlets. You both thought of the idea to put two words together. This kind of thing happens: it’s the internet. I once had someone email me in absolute anger that I ’stole’ his moniker….I had to call epic hogwash because he doesn’t own it, and it’s an email….so big deal. There are worse things to steal (such as sweaters, identities, babies, and Saskatchewan).
Eventually, there will be probably be another ‘Some Canadian Skeptic’….It’ll suck for me, but I’ll have no choice but to deal. Maybe I can still reach my audience and community by virtue of of my own words and ability to write, rather than by virtue of a temporal accident of simply having thought of it first. I’ve had my username (steveisgood) since 1999, and I don’t call people out for using it elsewhere (and believe me, they do…a lot of Steves ARE good). It sounds like you’re doing just fine and you don’t need to condemn/intimidate someone else that had the same idea as you.
More History
3) I know this blog (in it’s previous home on Blogspot) to have existed since 2007….you’ve had plenty of time to bring this up with the author. Had you merely googled Skeptigirl in the last 2 years, you’d have found this blog, as well as the various discussions she’s engaged in elsewhere. By now, this blog is very much a part of Kimbo’s skeptical activism as much your handle is of yours.
Tactics
4) I don’t exactly understand what you expect to happen at calling her out like this. Do you wish her to close this blog so you can use the name and start your own blog? I sincerely hope that is not the case. I hope you wish to start a blog, but I hope that you’re not trying to intimidate Kimbo for such a purpose.
Linguistics
5) Skeptigirl, Skepchick, Skeptologists….these are examples of a linguistic device called ‘portmanteau’.: it’s a type of neologism that takes two separate words with separate meanings (sometimes called ‘function words’) to create a new, usually descriptive, noun. If you drop a muffin on the floor, you can call it a ‘Floor Muffin’. But if you want to be hilarious and cute, you’d call it a ‘Fluffin’. You didn’t think of doing this. I’d wager that there are probably at least 3 other Skeptigirls out there, and probably a few more skepchicks and skepdicks too. Words are fun!
Tone:
6) Quite frankly, I found your initial call-out to be rather ‘pissy’. “I wonder who had it first.” is not a question. It’s a passive aggressive way of saying “I had it first, and you stole this from me!”. I’ve never met Kimbo in person, but I can easily imagine her shrugging her reply, “who knows”. I seriously don’t think she is taking this as personally as you seem to be. This is not about you. This blog isn’t using your name. It’s not like it’s “StephanieLaura-AnnJohanson.wordpress.com” (I REALLY hope that’s not your real name!!!)….it’s skeptigirl.
. To be fair, your original post was 10 words, and was rather abrupt in its own right.
More Tone, More Democracy discussion
7) Quite franklier, I really think that by listing your JREF post count, as well as your (admittedly impressive) Skeptic-cred, you were trying to pull rank. Don’t do that. Why is the JREF post count and speaking at TAM the gold-standard? Kimbo has been very active in her own right, and this blog sees some decent traffic, so if we’re arbitrarily making up net-handle hierarchies, maybe her cred is greater than yours, and YOU are using HER name. Obviously, no one is suggesting that, because it’s silly.
Ethics
8)
This is not what ethical means. Ethics is a discussion about competing perceptions of good/morality among and between social groups. You’re mad because someone else is using an internet handle that you think is ‘yours’, and you just found out. Kimbo isn’t the one being pissy. You called her unethical, that’s a pretty hefty charge for using an internet moniker. Don’t do that either.
Look, I really think you need to let this one go, and bow out gracefully. She’s not going to the JREF forums and pretending to be you, and you’re not starting a blog (as far as I know). You exist quite happily and successfully in your realm, and Kimbo in hers. No one is stepping on anyone else’s toes, and nobody’s ’stealing’ anything at all…..absolutely nothing.
So you should just be stoked that you’re doing just fine, and that in 2 years, this blog has not once held you back in ANY way.
Rock on.
Some Canadian Skeptic // August 2, 2009 at 6:52 AM |
Oh, and I just googled skeptigirl, and your JREF posts first appeared halfway down the second page, Kimbo’s blog (the new and old home) both came on the first page. Can Kimbo pull rank now because she has Google-cred?
Of course not, because it’s silly.
Skeptigirl // August 2, 2009 at 7:42 AM |
You wasted a lot of effort defending your friends. I have no fantasy the name I use is copyright protected. We are talking common courtesy here, not legal grounds to use a name.
As for Googling Skeptigirl, check out the second dozen pages, the majority of the links are to my posts on the JREF and on dozens of other blogs and news story replies. Like I said I have over 16,000 posts on the JREF forum using the name skeptigirl going back years before these 2 people started this blog.
Would you like it if people were posting using your name and other people thought it was your blog when it wasn’t?
Skeptigirl // August 2, 2009 at 7:47 AM |
I won’t be bowing out. I will need to point out every where this blog is mentioned that it isn’t me. I know the people from a number of the blogs linked from this one. I don’t want any of them to think this is my blog.
The reason I found this blog in the first place is someone commented on ‘my’ blog.
Skeptigirl // August 2, 2009 at 7:50 AM |
If Kimbo has been very active in her own right, I would think she wouldn’t want to be confused with someone else either. Why not call it Kimbo Mojo or something more personal?
Latreus Philistus // August 2, 2009 at 9:53 AM |
@skeptigirl-from-jref-forum
If ‘I got there first’ is your argument, what will you do if someone proves that they have used the ’skeptigirl’ moniker before you?
Will you ask that your moniker at the JREF Forum be changed to something else?
Kimbo Jones // August 2, 2009 at 9:56 AM |
“We are talking common courtesy here, not legal grounds to use a name. ”
Speaking of courtesy, you might want to look that up in the dictionary. What exactly is courteous about showing up on someone’s blog making accusations and acting like the queen of the internet? You might have gotten a better response if you had just been more understanding — as opposed to acting like I’m “guilty” of something I didn’t even know about.
“Would you like it if people were posting using your name and other people thought it was your blog when it wasn’t?”
I have never posted anywhere as “skeptigirl”. And in 2 years, none of the people who know you have come here and said anything to me. Or apparently have said anything to you, until now.
I’m not interested in drama. We’re not 12 and this isn’t a Twilight message board. If you want to start talking to me like an adult, great. Otherwise, we’re done.
Some Canadian Skeptic // August 2, 2009 at 10:59 AM |
@skeptigirl (easily distinguished from Kimbo):
I thought I already made it clear how I would feel. But as has already been pointed out to you, several times, Kimbo does not post as skeptigirl. Never has as far as I know. It’s an irrelevant point.
Do you think that you want these people you know from elsewhere to see this rather immature temper-tantrum? She didn’t steal anything from you, and the best way you get get over it is to learn that this sort of thing happens ALL THE TIME. Did you even read my post. I talk about this very thing.
I don’t think she’s loosing her shit over this as much as you seem to be. Why do you have more right to use a fake name in a virtual space where everyone is anonymous than someone else, who has also worked very hard to develop a reputation using an entirely different username ?
But you also called out me, with your insightful
. Wasted a lot of effort? Whats that, again? Providing a detailed, point-by-point argument that deals with every argument you raised as well as some others you haven’t considered, and have yet to respond to:
1) See the point about ethics
2) See the point about Free Domain/Net-Neutrality
3) See the point about More History
4) See the point about linguistics
But I suppose that none of my ‘wasted effort’ (re: counter-argument) matters because you’re really just plugging your ears and stamping your feet and effectively saying “MINE MINE MINE!” Guess what: It’s not yours, and no one will confuse Kimbo with you for two key reasons:
1) They’re entirely different names!
2) I don’t think I’ve ever seen Kimbo behave the way you are here. I’m sure you’re a super-nice person in real life, but the virtual world has different rules, and I’d like to welcome you to the internet. It’s a big, open place here, and overlap happens ALL THE TIME.
You’ve got to deal with it and be an adult.
Latreus Philistus raises a really good point, and I suggest you take heed. Also remember my point about portmanteau….it’s a simple linguistic device, and there are probably several skeptigirls out there. Are you going to harass them in their own backyards too?
No one talked shit about you before you started acting like a child. You still have time to forget this and bow out GRACEFULLY. The JREF forums are still a prestine place where no other skeptigirl has trodden. You’re still able to start a blog. The internet: Itz great!
Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that the internet is a town not big enough for the both of you? Is this seriously how you want to spend your effort: by internet-following Kimbo around and assuring people that you’re a different person? Kimbo has posted on my blog many times (including the most recent entry)…gonna follow her there and insist that you’re a different person.
I hate to be the one to have to tell you this, but NO ONE outside of the JREF forums care that you’re skeptigirl. Forums are but one part of the beast that is the internet. You don’t have the legal, moral, civil and CERTAINLY not ethical highgrounds here.
Maybe if you had called “DIBS!” or something. …..”CALLED IT FIRST” doesn’t work on the internet.
I smell hubris. This blog has been around a while, and you had plenty of time to bring this up. So stop acting like a whiny little kid who has to split her popcicle into to and share it with her little brother, who is probably named Kevin, and throws a huge temper-tantrum when Kevin starts getting noticed for being a special, lucky little boy for getting part of the last pink popcicle.
You have to get over it. You still have time. It’s not Kevin’s fault.
TCS // August 2, 2009 at 12:06 PM |
@the REAL Skeptigirl (aka Kimbo Jones) – pay no attention to the JREF skeptigirl. She’s an idiot.
Kimbo Jones // August 2, 2009 at 12:45 PM |
Thank you for the support, but let’s keep the personal attacks to a minimum.
Some Canadian Skeptic // August 2, 2009 at 12:56 PM |
@skeptigirl (not Kimbo),
I ask again, what do you want from Kimbo? Is there something you wish from her? I ask not to be caustic, but out of genuine curiosity.
To (over)extend the metaphor, remember: the two-stick’d Popsicle is designed with a little bifurcation for a good reason: It’s meant to be shared. Popsicle’s are fucking great that way! No one need go without, and everyone gets their own little piece of the refreshing treat, and no one needs to go to mom and yell that Kevin has the same colour of Popsicle you have! Kevin gets one too!
Kevin is adorable, and isn’t trying to cause a shit-storm. He’s the younger brother who hasn’t learned yet how to be selfish and possessive. Since he’s learned that you can split up the Popsicle, he will likely grow up in a world where Popsicles are routinely shared, and when the world starts to eat Popsicles, he’ll be more adaptable to sharing.
Am I being too condescending? Probably. But you threw a helluva big temper tantrum, and I doubt you fully understand the weight of your accusation. I’m not defending my friend, I’m defending a way to behave. If you haven’t figured out the internet yet, and try to bring your hubris to one of my stomping grounds, I will make sure you understand: The internet doesn’t work the way you want it to, and no level of temper tantrum will change that.
For the second time, you pulled your ‘16,000 posts since 2005′ rhetoric. That won’t fly, I’m not impressed, and the JREF, as super-awesome as it is (and I’m not being sarcastic), isn’t the president of online skepticism. Frankly, I respect a blog more than a forum. So your 16,000 forum posts mean about as much to me as a festering bowl of dog-snot.
If you wanted identity exclusivity, (legal or moral), then write for a dead-tree press. If you want to try and bring that behavior here to the intertoobs, no one will respect you, and indeed, ridicule you for your lack of understanding, as indeed, someone already has.
You seriously need to deal with it.
Northernskeptic // August 2, 2009 at 4:12 PM |
@skeptigirl could you please stop with the e-stalking of Kimbo? you messaged me on JREF after stalking through my twitterfeed when clearly you already had a means to contact her. As it has been pointed out the JREF boards are not the centre of skepticism on the net, but if you approached this differently you may have been able to work out an agreement however you didn’t and that is your loss.
Kimbo Jones // August 2, 2009 at 4:50 PM |
Ok this was pretty close to too far before with the almost libelous accusations, and now it’s spilling out onto other people. Too. Fucking. Far. I can handle myself, and if other people want to comment great, but I’ve had enough.
Basically this amounts to someone not knowing what “impersonate” means, making up a definition, and then getting irate when other people react to the accepted definition.
I’ve seen words used about me (such as being “disgusted” that this blog exists) and pejoratives (such as “some blogger” and “JREF fan”) that implicate that I am a worthless nobody doing something malicious and intentional. This was all done without my knowledge on a forum that I couldn’t even access before this morning when I noticed the incoming traffic and decided to check it out by opening an account. I was apparently supposed to divine “give me an explanation” out of “I wonder who had it first”. Last time I checked, mind-reading was pseudoscience.
Skeptigirl, it’s one thing to be pissed off that someone has the same generic name as you as the name of their blog (not even their username — anywhere), it’s quite another to accuse them of being unethical and then private message a bunch of people so you can start a campaign of hatred within your community. Do you realize how far off the rails that is?
At first I thought “she’s probably a nice person in real life and she’s just flipping out a bit for some reason”. You are now seriously straining my ability to be objective.
Now you’re in a position backed into a corner where if you have to admit you overreacted, you’ll look dumb or something. 1) You’re in a group of skeptics. If anything, admitting you overreacted will be seen as a good thing. As it should. 2) I understand that you don’t like it, but I didn’t do anything to you on purpose, I am NOT impersonating you, and you can take that or leave it. Either way, please leave me and everyone else alone unless you can act like a decent human being.
Harassment is not tolerated on the JREF forum, but unfortunately we can’t do anything about harassment over Twitter and my blog. I can, however, do the next best thing: Leave this here and let you comment as much as you want (I also have copies in my email account and have saved the JREF threads so far). I can also leave descriptions of your other actions (for anyone who wants to post about them).
You’re reputation is in your own words and actions, not mine. Choose them carefully from now on.
Kimbo Jones // August 5, 2009 at 4:06 PM |
In this comment I confused the JREF forum with the JREF blog. Also, if I were on the forum I would have used Kimbo Jones, if available (which it was when I finally signed up), to post comments. Not that it matters much now, but just in case anyone still gives a shit.
Dan J // August 8, 2009 at 12:06 PM |
Jeesh, Kimbo… The shit you have to put up with is simply amazing. Kudos for standing up for yourself.
Some Canadian Skeptic books an extra domain « Oot and Aboot with Some Canadian Skeptic // August 10, 2009 at 6:39 PM |
[...] For now, my home is at blogspot. I’ll keep poking around wordpress and see how’z aboot I like it for a while. Just figured I should claim this land in the name of Steve before….ummm…something happens. [...]